Curse

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I would like to make a suggestion about the Player-to-Player and the Player-to-Merchant trades.

First of all, I'll introduce myself. I have been playing Guild Wars for over 500 hours for now, from somewhere in July 2005 and I have noticed alot of things changing. Some changes, that have been around for some time already now, have seriously damaged the game in my opinion. But more of this later.

The most important way of getting your desires in surely money. Also in Guild Wars, money is very important. But as you well know, there are problems with money-buying over Ebay, money that usually comes from sweat shops in Korea. (One can spot this time-killing job when he would visit Augury Rock, international districts.) Of course the Guild Wars developement team tries to find these people and shuts down the accounts of those that buy the money, but it's impossible to eradicate all "cheaters" like this.

What's wrong?
The problem is basically very simple: The game got too easy. Everyone can get what he/she wants, and for a cheap price, 6 or 7 items aside. If you decide to make a new character, it's not difficult to get socalled "Perfect" items in Ascalon City. Then all you need to do is buy Superior Runes for the amazing price of 100gold and there you go, you can already wield your max damage weapon.
A long time ago, you were priviliged to have Superior Runes. They were really really rare and just any Superior Rune could give you about 30-60k, Vigor and Absorption aside. That whole concept of having "rare" armor got deleted by adding the Rune Trader. Same goes for the Dye Trader though.
No problem, you still have those Perfect Weapons, who can easily sell for over 100k! Then you decided to add green weapons, that sell for 5-50k and are easy to farm.
Due to these changes, Dye, Rune and Weapon markets collapsed. Prices fell way down, and people could just get richer and richer, which would make the game way less exciting, since you got everything anyway.
Then there were the genious "money sinks": 15k and Fissure of Woe armor. Now that was a very good idea and all, but what's it worth, they have the exact same stats! Isn't it normal that if you pay at least 20x the cost of your previous armor, you at least get something a BIT better, aside a different look? That's what went wrong:
The economy.

(All the above is an actual mind flow from me and many gamers i know in real life or from my guild. This is actually where the suggestions begin.)

How could you fix this?
Player-to-Merchant
I'd begin with REMOVING the Dye and Rune traders. A bit late now, since everyone allready has got everything he/she wants, but I think it would be important for beginning players and players that make new characters. Doing this before the release of Guild Wars: Factions in Europe and America would mean a huge rise in prices, so everyone gets the same chances for the expansion. "Won't this just encourage more people to buy money via Ebay?" you'll ask? Yes, but you could track if an account suddenly gains a ridiculous amount of gold, but doesn't give anything in return. Then you can easily root out the "cheaters", and give them a harsh treatment. Also: reset their accounts, no warnings, THEY cheated on YOU first, and thought they could get away with it.
Assuming you excecute this plan, you'd also have to make green items alot harder to get, and i mean alot, like the new UW items. But then still they're easy to get. So maybe create higher level creatures? There aren't many very difficult areas in the game. I found: 3. 1) The part outside Lion's Arch, when you go north 2) Thunderhead Keep Mission 3) The Ring of Fire islands group. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you might want to take an example from these areas and creatures.
Another way of solving this, would be creating weapons that exceed the "perfect" weapons from now, but make them really hard to get, nearly unique. World of Warcraft has succeeded in creating uniques, and their market is very good. Not only because they actually have very good weapons and nearly no traders whatsoever, but also because their weapons require a certain level, not an amount of attribute points. I'm not saying you should just copy the whole WoW system (that's illegal anyway), but it's certainly a good example. Many of my friends stopped playing GW when they discovered WoW, because it's just more challenging and exciting. I stayed, basically because I like Guild Wars better, and because I think it can be a better game, just because it's free.
Player-to-Player
Another thing WoW has, is the Auctionhouse. In opposition to the Trade Channel, you can just "put items on the Auctionhouse" and other people can come and perform search actions to find just what they want. Then the buyer and seller have a little chat and exchange items and gold without any problems. The Auctionhouse is just so fantastic, because you don't need to spam some channel to tell others you're selling, you jsut "put it on there" and then others can just come in and find what they seek, with a simple menu-submenu system.

Anyway, to make things short, in my opinion you could:
-Remove Traders [Dye and Rune] (keep the merchants).
-Make harder-to-get items, taht are worth to get them.
-Make Money Sinks worth it (add another 20 armor to FoW armor for instance, or more energy bonusses for tattoo/scar, etc).
-Make better weapons, and make them rarer.

Well, I'm just a fool with a vision, stating my opinion. If you read all of the above, you deserve a medal. Cheers.

IJs de Beer · Mar 12, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Hmm ill read it when I get the time...

Fred Kiwi · Mar 12, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Why can't people understand this is BALANCED game? Anet will never make an expensive armour better statwise. But I like the idea on dye and rune traders (makes ettin farming much moooore profitable

) but it would be very difficult for the average player to find their value.

lyra_song · Mar 12, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Items that exceed the standard of damage or armor without severe penalties would imbalance the game.

Auction houses have already been mentioned by Anet.

Creating rarer/better weapons would defeat Anet's motto with guild wars which would be along the lines of "Player skill, not rarity of items matters in combat". I dont care about your uber rare crystalline, but if dont even know how to work as part of a proper team, you are useless.

They have green items and collector items and weapon crafters if you dont feel like spending a lot of money.

calamitykell · Mar 12, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

So basically, you want to take expensive items, and make them even MORE expensive, so newer players have 0 chance at being on par with everyone else?

Screw you too.

Ichabod The Ranger · Mar 12, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Yeah that's true, it is a good idea to remove merchants, the game's gotten WAY too easy, but I do diagree with you warkst on the weapons thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Creating rarer/better weapons would defeat Anet's motto with guild wars which would be along the lines of "Player skill, not rarity of items matters in combat". I dont care about your uber rare crystalline, but if dont even know how to work as part of a proper team, you are useless.

I agree all the way. GW is balanced and it should stay that way, with weapons and armor at least.

[QUOTE=warkst]Another thing WoW has, is the Auctionhouse. In opposition to the Trade Channel, you can just "put items on the Auctionhouse" and other people can come and perform search actions to find just what they want. Then the buyer and seller have a little chat and exchange items and gold without any problems. The Auctionhouse is just so fantastic, because you don't need to spam some channel to tell others you're selling, you jsut "put it on there" and then others can just come in and find what they seek, with a simple menu-submenu system.[/warkst]

If you like to compare GW to WoW, then go play WoW. WoW haters don't ever say WoW is better than GW in any way. Sorry if that offended you or anyone else in any way. (I said WoW alot of times in there

)

IJs de Beer · Mar 12, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichabod The Ranger

Yeah that's true, it is a good idea to remove merchants, the game's gotten WAY too easy, but I do diagree with you warkst on the weapons thing.

Taking merchants out of the game will imbalance it. You can take merchants out of the game as soon as monsters are able to drop armor, until then just keep em in. I always thought it was a bit of a sob as soon as I found out that monsters didnt drop armor....

PieXags · Mar 12, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

You think it's quite a change since July of '05, it's massively different than when the game was released originally---for the better I'll add. Everything, from rune traders to FoW armor only LOOKING different was done for a reason, and a good reason at that. This game is meant for balance, you shouldn't have to be able to have any "1337" armors, or any "godly" weapons. PieXags gives this a /not signed.

Kakumei · Mar 12, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

Also in Guild Wars, money is very important.

No it isn't.

Post invalidated.

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

So basically, you want to take expensive items, and make them even MORE expensive, so newer players have 0 chance at being on par with everyone else?

Screw you too.

No, i wanna take expensive items and make them MORE expensive, so that every new player has an equal chance. This may work as a money sink for the more hardcore gamer who want their nice FoW armor to be nice and black, and then make it harder again for them to get rich(er) again. It would balance out the game after some time, though indeed it might imbalance it at first.

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJs de Beer

Taking merchants out of the game will imbalance it. You can take merchants out of the game as soon as monsters are able to drop armor, until then just keep em in. I always thought it was a bit of a sob as soon as I found out that monsters didnt drop armor....

The first monsters are to drop armor are char. So remove merchants from ascalon, according to your theory?

You can just increase the rune-carrying armor drops if you think there aren't enough rune drops.

Juicey Shake · Mar 12, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by op

Yes, but you could track if an account suddenly gains a ridiculous amount of gold, but doesn't give anything in return. Then you can easily root out the "cheaters",

wrrrrong. I have 3 accounts. I transfer large sums of money between them sometimes, and then don't go on one for weeks. Does this mean I should be banned to, because they can easily root me out as a 'cheater'?

Everyone would just turn to ebay if prices were increased to unattainable heights especially because anet is nerfing all public farming areas.

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

...to have any "1337" armors, or any "godly" weapons.

I never even mentioned the words "Godly" or "1337". I said, better weapons. Since people are willing to pay tons for a 10% chance armor penetration, i think 17-30 exceeds 15-28 bows, but that doesn't make them "1337" right?

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicey Shake

wrrrrong. I have 3 accounts. I transfer large sums of money between them sometimes, and then don't go on one for weeks. Does this mean I should be banned to, because they can easily root me out as a 'cheater'?

Everyone would just turn to ebay if prices were increased to unattainable heights especially because anet is nerfing all public farming areas.

You've just proven me right on the sloppy supervision. In fact, they should ban you for owning multiple accounts, right?

TheCrusader · Mar 12, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Your suggestions would completely unbalance PvP.

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I can see there are alot of negative responses on my point of view regarding the weapons. Agreed, maybe I got carried away this afternoon, but don't you people think it can be really annoying when you get ranger spiked by a Rare Vampiric Eternal Bow Of Fortitude in the ascalon arenas? I'm sure the game wasn't meant to be played like that.
And making insanely difficult to get weapons/items wouldn't imbalance the game, and it would prove that only a group of 8 disciplined players that know Teamwork can get those better things, which would prove that you get better results through making friends and being skilled.

warkst · Mar 12, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCrusader

Your suggestions would completely unbalance PvP.

PvP is unbalanced already. IWAY, VIM, R-spike, Ele-spike: proves teamplay, but it still renders other skills pretty useless. I personally think R-spike is the best build for HA(=HoH). Therefor, all rangers are good for (in PvP) is ranger spike (or VIM, but that aside) and tehrefor have like 100 other "useless" skills in their skill list.

Cottage Pie · Mar 12, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

No it isn't.

Post invalidated.

+1

Wealth is truely a matter of personal perception.

I used to play runescape, I had over 400 Million (I was pretty wealthy) in that game before it struck me i was being a sad-arse fool wasting my life, i was competing with idiots. Money don't matter, it's nice for fancy armours, vanity weps, etc, but this game does NOT lend it's self to the traditional MMORPG accumulation of wealth and showing it off with stats, hence why i've only made about 5-7million in the game, a huge amount to some but it's really not much at all compared to dedicated merch's - there's just no motivation for me...I wan't to play games again, not re-create myself in a game, which is I find the persuasion of mmorpgs. in runescape EVERYTHING was about wealth, endless inflation, continual input of new items, price fixing etc...

As an 'experienced' merch and long-term player I honestly think GWs rejects the importance of personal wealth...The amount of ebayer's is perplexing however, it's like they picked up the wrong game, I was speaking to someone only yesterday, he had played for one week and already had 2.5million/15^50 fellblade/chaos axe, blablah...Why? I suppose people will interpret this game in their own way, and whilsts I still feel pangs of want for those 15^50 crystallines, dwarvens, serpents...oh, always damage no penalty weps, the 'rares' (ebayers) market otherwise is so dull it's obscene...hilarious too.

I hope factions put's an end to the turgid thing that is called PvE in this game and completes the promise of war, of random fighting and killing in the middle of huge maps, HoH for everyone, kinda.

lyra_song · Mar 12, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

No, i wanna take expensive items and make them MORE expensive, so that every new player has an equal chance. This may work as a money sink for the more hardcore gamer who want their nice FoW armor to be nice and black, and then make it harder again for them to get rich(er) again. It would balance out the game after some time, though indeed it might imbalance it at first.

The only way to make things EQUAL for newer players is to make things CHEAPER, not more expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

You've just proven me right on the sloppy supervision. In fact, they should ban you for owning multiple accounts, right?

._. omg...you're...i can't believe...-.o wow.

That just completely defeats any sensible business model a company would have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

I can see there are alot of negative responses on my point of view regarding the weapons. Agreed, maybe I got carried away this afternoon, but don't you people think it can be really annoying when you get ranger spiked by a Rare Vampiric Eternal Bow Of Fortitude in the ascalon arenas? I'm sure the game wasn't meant to be played like that.
And making insanely difficult to get weapons/items wouldn't imbalance the game, and it would prove that only a group of 8 disciplined players that know Teamwork can get those better things, which would prove that you get better results through making friends and being skilled.

Ascalon Arena is not a good example. Its full of twinkers already. It needs fixing itself.

Besides, having a vamp bow while level 10...not very smart since you are dropping points into all your marks to get the requirement, and that would make you have very little in Wilderness survival to self heal.

I vote yes on rarer SKINS of weapons, but they MUST be equal to stats of collectors or easy to get weapons. That way, owning them gives you ZERO advantage.

Making more powerful and rare weapons is not the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

PvP is unbalanced already. IWAY, VIM, R-spike, Ele-spike: proves teamplay, but it still renders other skills pretty useless. I personally think R-spike is the best build for HA(=HoH). Therefor, all rangers are good for (in PvP) is ranger spike (or VIM, but that aside) and tehrefor have like 100 other "useless" skills in their skill list.

Thats why they NERF and BUFF. Or in case you havent noticed? Guild Wars is one of the few online rpgs that actually tries to balance its PVP system sincerely.

IJs de Beer · Mar 12, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by warkst

The first monsters are to drop armor are char. So remove merchants from ascalon, according to your theory?

You can just increase the rune-carrying armor drops if you think there aren't enough rune drops.

I ment wearable items not char armors or summit...